How to Get Out of Debt in Australia - Without Doing It Alone

What do you do when debt feels like it's swallowing you whole  and you're too ashamed to tell anyone?

Molly is back hosting Get Rich this week, sitting down with Kristen Hartnett, a financial counsellor from the Salvation Army's MoneyCare service, to talk about something so many Australian women are quietly going through right now,  debt. Whether it's credit cards, buy now pay later, a car loan that's gotten away from you, or just the creeping anxiety of cost of living hitting harder than ever, this episode is a must-listen.

And here's the thing - there is a free, professional, non-judgmental service available to every single Australian, and most of us have no idea it exists. Until now.

In this episode, you'll learn:

• Why smart, capable women end up in serious debt  and why it has nothing to do with poor spending habits
• How shame and secrecy make debt worse, and what to do instead
• What a financial counsellor actually does (and why it costs you absolutely nothing)
• The signs it's time to stop Googling and just make the call
• What can realistically be negotiated with banks and creditors on your behalf
• Why bankruptcy is rarely the answer and what the alternatives are
• How the debt snowball method works and when it makes sense to use it
• What debt collectors can and can't legally do to you in Australia
• Government grants and emergency relief payments you might not know you're entitled to
• How to rebuild your financial confidence after clearing debt, for good

Perfect for: Australian women feeling the pressure of cost of living, anyone quietly struggling with debt, and women who just want to know their options before things get worse.

The biggest takeaway from this episode? You are not alone, you are not a failure, and there is free help waiting for you right now. 🎧

CHAPTERS

00:00 - Introduction: Why This Debt Episode Is One Every Australian Woman Needs to Hear
01:22 - Meet Kristen Hartnett: From Year Eight Commerce Class to Financial Counsellor
02:27 - What Does a Financial Counsellor Actually Do in Australia?
02:48 - The Real Reasons Australian Women End Up in Serious Debt
04:33 - How Shame and Secrecy Make Debt Worse (And What to Do Instead)
07:04 - Cost of Living Crisis: The New Face of Debt in Australia
08:11 - Signs You Should Stop Googling and Call a Financial Counsellor Today
10:00 - What Actually Happens in a Financial Counselling Session
12:42 - What Can Be Negotiated With Banks and Creditors on Your Behalf
13:53 - Family and Domestic Violence and Debt: What You Need to Know
14:34 - The Worst Types of Debt in Australia: Payday Loans, Pawn Brokers and Car Finance
16:44 - Is Bankruptcy the Right Option? What Australians Need to Know
17:46 - How to Rebuild Your Finances After Clearing Debt for Good
20:22 - The Debt Snowball Method: Does It Actually Work?
21:50 - The One Thing to Do the Moment You Lose Your Job
22:18 - What Debt Collectors Can and Cannot Legally Do in Australia
23:09 - Government Grants and Emergency Relief Payments You Might Not Know About
25:03 - Too Scared to Open Your Banking App? This Is for You
25:32 - How to Contact a Financial Counsellor in Australia

LINKS FROM THE EPISODE

National Debt Helpline
📞 1800 007 007
🌐 https://ndh.org.au/

Salvation Army MoneyCare Service
📞 1800 722 363
🌐 https://www.salvationarmy.org.au/
💬 Live chat also available on their website
Salvation Army — You're the Boss Financial Literacy Program (Free downloadable financial literacy program to help you rebuild after debt)

Ask Izzy
🌐 https://askizzy.org.au/
(Find emergency relief vouchers and local support services in your area)

CONNECT WITH KRISTEN HARTNETT

Website: https://www.salvationarmy.org.au/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/salvosau
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheSalvationArmyAustralia/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-salvation-army-australia
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/SalvArmyAUS

CONNECT WITH LADIES FINANCE CLUB

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Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladiesfinanceclub/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/ladies-finance-club/
Newsletter: https://www.ladiesfinanceclub.com/newsletter23

TAKEAWAYS

SOUND BITES

"It's a free independent service that provides information, support and advocacy for people who are finding it tough financially."
"We are all valuable, we are all worthwhile, but our financial situation is not what our personal worth as a person."
"We've got to be really kind and really compassionate and go, this is where I am at the moment. What's next? What can I do to move forward?"
"If you have a broken arm and I have two broken legs, both need to be dealt with. They both need to be supported."
"Financial stress costs you more than just money."
"I was really scared to ring you but it's the best thing I've done."
"Don't suffer in silence. And even if you've signed up for something, because when we're at desperate times are desperate measures, and you do what it takes to survive, we get that."
"You are exactly who I want to talk to. Please ring us. Have the call. It's confidential. It's not judgmental. You don't have to live with that fear."

TRANSCRIPT

[00:00:00] Welcome back to another episode of Get Rich. I'm your host, Molly Benjamin, founder of Ladies Finance Club. Now, I want you to think about the last time you felt that pit in your stomach when a bill landed in your inbox, or the moment you realized you were robbing Peter to pay Paul, 'cause today's episode is for that version.

[00:00:20] I sat down with Kristen Harnett from The Salvation Army's Money Care Service, a financial counselor who has spent her career helping Aussies navigate debt without judgment, without shame, and completely free. I always say that financial counselors are like the angels of the finance world. And if you are someone who's struggling with debt at the moment, whether it's a dollar or a million dollars, I guess the biggest thing I want to get across in this episode is you don't have to do it alone.

[00:00:50] Reach out to a debt counselor. These women and men, they're just amazing, and there's actually so much they can do to help advocate for you. If you know someone in debt, please send them this episode. And if you're enjoying it, please hit the subscribe button, or even better, leave us a nice review. All right?

[00:01:11] Let's get into this week's episode with the gorgeous Kristen. Kristen, welcome to the podcast.

[00:01:19] Oh, great to be here. Thanks for having me.

[00:01:22] Okay. So take me back to the moment you decided to dedicate your career to helping Aussies with debt. What was that turning point for you?

[00:01:30] It's probably a, a little bit longer than what I'd like to, like it to be.

[00:01:35] I recall actually being in school, in high school, and doing a commerce class, you know, about year eight, and I remember my year eight commerce teacher talking about the different costs of things and how you can finance them. And it was at that moment I was fascinated with why people would choose more expensive finance and other things.

[00:01:57] And I think it was that quest to then understand probably why we did the things we do. And then I think later on I did some work, I did some study at uni, and then it was after having children. My mother was a personal counselor at Lifeline, and she said, "Kristen, there's this job as a financial counselor you might enjoy, enjoy that."

[00:02:17] So it was probably a combination of those two things that helped me get into it, and found my lane, and have been inspired by the work ever since.

[00:02:27] And for Aussies listening who don't know what financial counselors do or that they even exist, I guess kind of like in one or two sentences, what do you guys actually do?

[00:02:37] What I want to say, it's a free independent service that provides information, support, and advocacy for people who are finding it tough financially.

[00:02:48] Mm. And what are the real reasons Australian women end up in serious debt? How much of it is actually just about poor spending habits?

[00:02:56] I guess in my experience, Molly, it's-- I can't say I've seen that it's been poor spending habits.

[00:03:04] Look, I think finding yourself in debt is simple, and it's also complex. It's simple in that you go, "Well, you signed up for it, you've got to repay it." But it's complex in the point of view of life is traveling along and then all of a sudden cost of living happens, petrol goes up, food goes up, you lose a job, you have a sick child.

[00:03:23] So it's the interplay of the two things that you can find yourself in debt. I think we've got to remember as people we are always optimistic. When we sign that contract, we believe we can pay it in full. We have full intentions, but life happens. And I think some of the other things are we understand what our regular commitments are financially, but I think we sometimes underestimate what our irregular ones, like medical expenses, car repairs, and that type of thing.

[00:03:52] So there's little biases and I think little mind hacks that happen. The other thing is you've got to remember it's really easy to spend.

[00:03:58] Mm.

[00:03:59] It's very enticing, and often when we're buying things and when we're buying it on debt, we're actually buying two things. We're buying the product, but we're also buying the finance product.

[00:04:10] So we might do research around the product. Yes, we like that, I don't know, vacuum cleaner. But we may not do research around the way we're financing it. So we're often buying two products in one.

[00:04:20] Mm.

[00:04:20] If we put it on our credit card or buy now, pay later. And you know, that's just exhausting to do that. And so I think we go, "Okay, yeah, I'll be right.

[00:04:27] I can repay that off," and we have that situation. Then something happens and we may not be able to.

[00:04:33] Yeah. Absolutely. What do you think, like, how does shame and secrecy play a role in making debt worse? And why do people wait so long before they come to you for help?

[00:04:45] Mm. I think as to why do they wait so long to come, a couple of reasons.

[00:04:51] I think firstly, they don't know we exist. Yeah. It's a free professional service, and they don't know we exist. However, we are there, and you can reach us at, on the National Debt Helpline 1800-007-007 or Moneycare 1800-722-363. The second thing, I do think people are always hopeful and believe they can work their way out of it.

[00:05:14] Yeah. But financial problems are complex now. When you're dealing with a big organization, a big corporation, you don't necessarily know who to reach out to. And there is still, sadly, I do think people equate their financial worth with their, their personal worth. But none of us are the sum of the two. We are all valuable.

[00:05:36] We are, are all worthwhile. But our financial situation is not what our, our personal worth as a person. And I think, uh, we all make mistakes, Molly. Mm. We can all get it right and wrong, but what differs is sometimes our ability to get out of it. So if we don't have much buffer in our finances, we can easily go, "I signed up for it.

[00:05:58] I did the stupid thing." It's that harsh self-talk.

[00:06:01] Yeah.

[00:06:02] And as instead of we've got to be really kind and really compassionate and go, "This is where I am at the moment. What's next? What can I do to move forward?" So I think we're harsh critics on ourselves- Yeah ... for what's a really easy thing to happen.

[00:06:15] Yeah, I agree. We think we can get ourselves out of the situation. But then reaching out for help does not mean you've failed at all. I think it's- No ... you know, shows that you are taking responsibility.

[00:06:27] Yeah. And Molly, I think someone I remember in sort of early in my working career, it's one of the best questions I used in nearly every situation.

[00:06:36] Whenever I get stuck, the question I go, "Who can help me with this?"

[00:06:40] Yeah.

[00:06:40] And it doesn't matter it's finance or whatever. But with finance, who can help me with this? Yeah. Because I think we all know our responsibilities, but very few of us know the banker's code, our, all our rights- Yeah ... the insurer's code, the debt collecting code.

[00:06:55] We just don't know it. So therefore, we're not really in the position to know exactly how to handle it. But there are free services that can support you.

[00:07:04] And with cost of living crisis, are you seeing any new types of people walking through your door, like calling you guys up who, like, did the right things but now they're still ending up in a situation where they need to speak to a financial counselor?

[00:07:18] Yeah. We definitely are. I think what we're seeing is people, they've been under the financial challenge for a longer time. There's been no respite. So I think we are seeing new cohorts, like new people connect with us. We don't want them to have to connect with us, but we celebrate that they do. So I think it's the prolonged nature of it for people, and it's just working and it's navigating a few different financial products.

[00:07:45] Because buy now, pay later is a really commonly used one and there's many providers of that product, people don't always know how to navigate that bill or that payment with those providers. So we see people coming in for those, and we do see people on incomes. We do see people who've got steady and stable incomes still finding it hard to meet the commitments they've got at this point in time.

[00:08:08] But we are here for them. We are here for all people.

[00:08:11] Love that. I always call you guys the angels of the finance world. And I guess what are some of those kind of signs that someone should stop googling and just call a financial counselor today?

[00:08:23] Mm. I think I would encourage everyone just to reach out.

[00:08:26] Yeah. Just make the call. It doesn't cost anything. Sometimes a sign might be a feeling in your stomach. You know, it can be that yucky feeling in your tummy, you go, "Oh, I don't wanna have to do this." If there's a feeling of, "Oh, I don't know what to do anymore," that's another sign. I think whenever you're sort of robbing Peter to pay Paul, you know, you're shuffling things all around and you haven't got a clear system of how you're gonna clear out those debts, that's another opportunity to call.

[00:08:51] Mm. If you're nervous opening emails, nervous opening envelopes, all of those ones. But I think it's also just a sense check. If you sort of go, "I'm just not sure that this is right. Is this bill right?" Yeah. "I'm just curious that this seems a bit wrong," it's also come and chat with us. We'll come and look through the source documents.

[00:09:10] We'll check that the contract was set up correctly for you, and we can work all through those things. So just if there's a little bit of doubt, we would say reach out. Yeah. The thing I would say, quite often people say, "Oh, there's people in a worse position than me," and that may be true. But we would say if you have a broken arm and I have two broken legs- Both need to be dealt with.

[00:09:32] Yeah. They both need to be supported. And what the relief actually brings, it's more than just the financial. It's a clarity of mind. Yeah. It's sort of the peace of mind. It's them being the mom again. It's being the partner again, being the girlfriend again. All of those things that come because financial stress costs you more than just money.

[00:09:52] Oh, definitely. But we can actually ... It does. And but we can actually work on all those things so that you can go and do the things you enjoy as you work through the situation.

[00:10:00] Yeah. And I spoke to a lovely woman last year. She has two kids. She's in a relationship. Her partner lost their job, and all of a sudden she found herself on, like, a very, just her income, and she was only working a few days a week.

[00:10:15] I guess in a session, I guess in those kind of situations, what kind of levers do they have? Obviously, I said definitely reach out and speak to a debt counselor. But they were like- Mm ... "Oh, I don't know. Should I? Like, I'm a bit, like, almost embarrassed that I need to because we've kind of got ourselves into this situation," exactly as you said.

[00:10:33] Mm. Mm. But in, for that example, like, how would a session with someone like that, how would that run? What would the process be that you guys would go through?

[00:10:41] Yeah, sure. I-- from the beginning, uh, I'm sort of gonna start at the end.

[00:10:45] Yeah.

[00:10:46] At the end, the comments that we get from everyone is, "Thank you for your support.

[00:10:51] I wished I'd reached out sooner."

[00:10:52] Yeah. "

[00:10:53] Thanks for being non-judgmental. Thank you for treating me with dignity and respect." So I just wanna know that's gonna be the experience- Yeah ... that people will have. Just having a friend walk alongside you doing that and sharing you. From there, we would go in, and we would sort of try and understand.

[00:11:11] We'd, we'd paint a picture. Mm. We'd understand what's happened to bring you into this situation. We would see what all your commitments are, what your assets are, the money coming in, the money going out, and then we would work through with you establishing what are your goals? What's the one causing you the most worry?

[00:11:30] But we would also let you know, 'cause we tend to know which creditors are a bit more active at times- Yeah ... and we know which creditors have got hardship departments and easy to talk to. We would sort of go through, let's work out a plan. We'd look at all the debt, so but it's all the decisions of the person who comes to see us.

[00:11:48] It's all their decision. We'd check that the lending was done responsibly. Mm. We'll check out what we can do. And most lenders have hardship provisions. Yeah. Uh, you know, there is legislation that says that they need to support us during hardship. We understand it. Life happens. And so then we would, depending on the situation, if the person wanted to go and advocate on their own behalf with those creditors, they could do it.

[00:12:15] If they felt that they wanted us to support them, we may do one, and then they can copy what we do and do the rest, or we may do it all for them, depending on the circumstances. So I guess what we're doing is painting a picture, quantifying the problem- Mm ... understanding how it got there, checking the lending's correct- And then making a path forward.

[00:12:35] So, you know, a problem shared is a problem halved. We see it consistently. Yeah. And people go, "I don't feel as alone," which is excellent. Yeah.

[00:12:42] Oh, big time. And you can negotiate, as you said, with creditors and banks on someone's behalf. What generally realistically can be achieved? Like, can you, like, reduce people's repayments for a certain amount of months, or can you negotiate maybe not as much debt?

[00:12:58] Like, how does it work?

[00:12:59] Yeah. It's... Can I just say it's a case-by-case basis? Yeah, of course. So it's scenarios. So I guess it depends whether it's a short-term-

[00:13:06] Yeah ...

[00:13:07] hardship or whether this is probably a permanent change in situations. So on that, sometimes we would get a freeze on payments for a while and ask for a freeze on interest, so there might be a hold.

[00:13:18] Look, it depends if it's a mortgage. You know, the interest generally gets capitalized, so that means they hold it to the end. It gets shifted along the contract. Sometimes on a credit card it just may get frozen.

[00:13:29] Yeah.

[00:13:29] So it depend what that looks like. It may be if you happen to have a sum of money that you can offer, we may pro rata.

[00:13:38] So we may offer all of the different creditors X amount of cents in the dollar as a full and final payment. Okay. It, it does vary. I do just want people to know if they are experiencing family and domestic violence, and we are seeing that in our services, and that can be elder abuse or by an intimate partner, it can be from adult children.

[00:14:01] It is happening A lot of the creditors have very good hardship provisions, and if the person was comfortable sharing that, we would share that with the provider saying that this is what they're experiencing at the moment, and we'd work out what that repayment plan could be. It may be nominal or it may be cut in half and a repayment.

[00:14:21] It just varies and it depends on what assets you've got as well. So there's a multitude. What I'm saying is there's a multitude- Yeah ... of responses that you get to decide what's comfortable for you.

[00:14:34] Great. In your experience of being a financial counselor for so long, what are the worst debts you see people get themselves into?

[00:14:42] Is it the credit cards? Is it the buy now, pay laters? Like, if you had to, like, name a few, what would be the top of your list?

[00:14:48] Mm. I think what we find is anyone that's dealing with second and third tier lenders, they're harder for us to deal with.

[00:14:57] So

[00:14:57] can you give me an example-

[00:14:58] We

[00:14:58] do... Yeah ... of what that

[00:14:59] might look like?

[00:15:00] Yeah. So it might be a finance company, like a payday loan or something like that. Mm. 'Cause we know payday loans are 48%. We know pawn brokers are... Oh, we see examples of 7, 800%. Wow. We see horrendous examples where people do that. So there's mainstream lenders that you know, that you see. They're sort of brands that we know commonly, and they're involved with all dispute resolution schemes.

[00:15:27] You know, there's accountabilities, there's measures and checks. So you know, they, they generally tend to be... We can have conversations with them. But there's some providers who are less well-known and, like the payday loans and the pawn brokers, that we find a little bit harder- Yeah ... to deal with. Look, we have very mixed experience with loans for cars through car finance.

[00:15:50] Yeah. Sometimes that can be a more challenging one. And so if people are shopping for a car, we encourage them to shop for the motor vehicle they're after, but also shop for your finance. Yeah. Go to your normal bank and see what they're offering as well. Having said that, there may be some affordable car loan finance as well.

[00:16:08] I can't just sort of sweep that one automatically. But I'm saying you shop for the two products. I think the main thing is whatever your situation is, reach out. Yeah. Don't suffer in silence. And even if you've signed up for something, because when we're at desperate times are desperate measures, and you do what it takes to survive.

[00:16:28] Yeah. We get that. So even if you find that, please just reach out, yeah, to us.

[00:16:34] And do you find people, like, going, "Well, I'm just gonna declare bankruptcy," and you're like- Actually we can help you? Or is sometimes bankruptcy the right decision someone can make?

[00:16:45] Molly, that's very commonly people come in and say, "I think I'd just like to declare bankruptcy."

[00:16:50] Yeah. And we have a f- and we go, "Okay, it's one of your options, and let's explore the others."

[00:16:55] Yeah.

[00:16:56] Quite often we actually are able to work through the other options rather than the person pursuing bankruptcy. However, sometimes bankruptcy is the best option for people- Mm ... and it's the one they choose.

[00:17:09] It's legislation that we have in Australia to protect people who find themselves unable to pay their debts. And what we would say is sometimes it's just the line in the sand and moving forward. There are consequences. It's definitely the one of last resort.

[00:17:25] Yeah.

[00:17:25] But as long as you go in informed, knowing the risks but also the benefits, and you can make an informed decision, we would support you in that process, but give you all the other options before you went that pathway.

[00:17:37] Yeah. Okay, great. How do you help someone rebuild financially after clearing debt? Because staying out is actually a whole new challenge.

[00:17:46] Yeah, it is. Look, progress is not linear, is it, for any of us? Mm-mm. It's two steps forward, one steps back. So I think what we, we would do with people is set up systems for success.

[00:17:58] So we have our financial literacy program called You're the Boss, which people can go on the salvationarmy.org.au website and download and have a look at that. As we set people up for success, life is more than money. It's understanding our money story. So in there we have a thing about understanding your money story, understanding your triggers to spend- Mm

[00:18:17] understanding your triggers of why you don't reach out for help. You know, they're all part of our financial journey. And so we'd encourage people to do their money story, understand themselves, be kind and compassionate to themselves. Also, know your values. So make sure that your spending is in line with your values.

[00:18:33] Quite often you can get caught spending on things to, you know, it might be just a little bit of belonging or a little bit of keeping up- Mm ... just subtly. But, you know, know your values and know what brings you joy. And we support people. One of the things, there's a few things that bring resilience and financial resilience to people's lives or, or a confidence, and one is the ability to reach out, ask for help when you need it.

[00:18:55] Secondly is know what brings you joy. Mm. We don't want people to not have joy. We don't want it to be a frugal life if frugality is not your value. We want you to flourish. So it might be things like finding out the Parkrun, using your library- Yeah ... knowing all those beautiful things and fun things, time in nature, time in the sun, all those things that are available in your area.

[00:19:17] But when we work through, we do quite substantial impact- Mm-hmm ... evaluation, and what we see is people move. When they go through this, they have better mental health scores, they have improved wellbeing scores. And one of the things is social capital, is improving who's in our world, who can we reach out to, because that's a really protective factor.

[00:19:39] We know that when life gets tough, sometimes someone brings us a meal. Yeah. That's a lifesaver On some days Yeah And so having that network in your world is how we set people up for failure. Uh, sorry, set people up for success. Yeah. So forgive me on that one. Preventing that failure. But look, should life happen again, just reach out to us again.

[00:20:00] Yeah. That's quite okay. We also have a fortnightly newsletter, so if people have been in our service we just have a little newsletter with, with little tips to stay connected. But there, but setting up systems so that payments happen automatically rather than the, that cognitive load of, oh, I've gotta decide who I'm gonna pay first.

[00:20:19] We'll try and set those things up for success as well.

[00:20:22] I guess someone who is trying to do it on their own and looking at a method for getting out of debt, you know, there's a very popular one called the snowball method where it's kind of like you list out your debts, you rearrange them smallest to largest, you focus on getting rid of the smallest debt first and so on and so forth.

[00:20:38] How often do you find that kind of helps people or otherwise it's, it's bigger than that at this stage by the time they've come to you?

[00:20:46] Well, I, I think it's definitely an option for people, and if, if they've explored that and it's working for them, great. What I would just say is don't ignore any of the debts.

[00:20:56] As you're paying off the different debts- Mm ... I think there's a win. There's a reward to the brain as you pay one off, and the money once you've paid that off, you go to the next one. Yeah. The other thing is look at who's actually charging you the most interest. Who's the one that's costing you the most?

[00:21:09] So you can actually pay those off. But make sure you're treating all of them. But look, snowballing definitely is one of the options that we will put to, to people to pay off the debt. And the progress, I think if you do a picture of what you owe and own at a point in time, and then do one in three or six months time, you will see that you've progressed.

[00:21:29] Yeah.

[00:21:29] Week by week it doesn't feel like that. But, but week by week and day by day gets the job done. And month by month you'll see a more significant change. So we just encourage people to do the system that works, the one they can stick to. If what you're doing's not working, that's okay. Reach out. We'll explore what else there is for you.

[00:21:50] And I guess what's the one thing you wish every Australian knew they could do the moment they lost their job before debt even starts?

[00:21:59] The one thing, I think the thing is that they're not alone. Just to know take a breath. I would say it's not personal.

[00:22:06] Yeah.

[00:22:06] And that we can navigate that system. Mm. It is a shock.

[00:22:11] It does take your breath away. But we will be able to adapt and get through with you and alongside you.

[00:22:18] I love that. And just from a legal point of view, what can debt collectors legally do to you in Australia, and what can they absolutely not allowed to do that most people don't- Realise or aware of Yeah.

[00:22:30] Oh, Molly, I probably, I'm not up on the debt collection code enough to kind of be really confident on that one. Sorry for you. No, that's all right. Um, can we just- But can

[00:22:38] they rock up... Can they rock up to your house and knock on your door?

[00:22:40] Yeah. What we know with debt collection is they're bound by a code.

[00:22:44] And so if debt collectors are contacting you and you're not sure that they're meeting the requirements and it seems a little bit after hours or a little bit too frequently, there's quite strict guidelines on how often they can contact you, where they can contact you. So reach out to your local legal aid service or reach out to a financial counsellor and they'll be able to tell you what are the realistic expectations that a, a debt collection company can do.

[00:23:09] Yeah. Okay. And I guess are there any, like, government grants or emergency relief payments for people drowning in debt that they don't know they're entitled to? Or is it generally, like, if there's been an emergency or a, like, a climate event?

[00:23:25] Hmm. There's different grants and rebates available. We know that...

[00:23:30] And they differ from state to state and from provider to provider. So if it's for your electricity or your water or council rates, contact your provider because there are rebates and grants available. Each state might have support for getting children back into local sport. You know, so go onto your local state and see what there is.

[00:23:51] The other thing is there is what's called emergency relief. So should you find yourself in a sudden change of circumstances, you could go onto and l- look up-- There's a really good website called Ask Izzy, and Ask Izzy has a lot of details of who's providing relief vouchers in your area. Generally, that has to be used for food and consumables for that week.

[00:24:12] But, um, if your circumstances change or it may be needed for petrol and some transport, there are criteria for it. But there are supports available in your local area of emergency relief and also grants on, on different, um, utilities and providers. I think the other thing is you're having trouble with owing also money to creditors.

[00:24:33] Know that-- And, and also with your utilities, know that there are ombud- ombudsman services. So there's mechanisms for if you're having-- you reach out to your provider and it's not working, have a look at the different dispute resolution services that are available through financial complaints or through electricity and water complaints, and use services should you need.

[00:24:55] Great. And just final two questions. What would you say to someone listening right now who's too scared to even open their banking app?

[00:25:03] Oh, I'd say you are exactly who I wanna talk to. Yeah. I would say please ring us. Have the call. It's confidential. It's not judgemental. Just say, "You don't have to live with that fear," and we can work together on it.

[00:25:18] I'd say it's also normal. We're taking those calls every day, and we're also seeing people who go, "I was really scared to ring you, but it's the best thing I've done." So I'd say thanks for listening. Please just give us a try. It won't cost you anything.

[00:25:32] Love it. And finally, where can people find you, or where can they kind of reach out to you?

[00:25:37] So you mentioned the National Debt Helpline.

[00:25:39] Yes. So there's a couple of ways. So I'm with the Salvation Army with the Money Care Service. So it's 1-800-722-363 or you can find details salvationarmy.org.au. And appointments can be via phone or in person. It's up to you. We also, we also have a chat so you can

[00:26:00] A live chat. So on our website you can have a live chat if you'd like to do it anonymously or reach out to the National Debt Helpline, 1-800-007-007 or ndh.org.au. Another excellent sort of organization that supports people through freely, confidentially, professionally, and with no judgment.

[00:26:21] Awesome.

[00:26:22] Thank you so much for your time.

[00:26:23] Oh, thanks, Molly. And we just really encourage anyone, you know, just to say we are here. You're not alone. It's not a reflection of your competence or your capability. We are here, and we wanna be there for you. So thanks, Molly.

[00:26:40] Awesome. God, you guys do such good work.

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