Why Your Relationship with Money is More Complicated than You Think and How to Fix it with Rachel Davies & Angela Meyer

 What if being bad with money was never actually your fault?

Molly Benjamin sits down with Rachel Davies and Angela Meyer, the New Zealand co-founders of Hi Money and authors of the brand new book Money, Money, Money: How to Reset Your Money Mindset and Find Financial Freedom - which just hit number one on the NZ bestseller charts. Rachel is a therapist specialising in money psychology, and Angela is a gender equity expert with two decades of experience unpacking the systems that make financial wellbeing so much harder for women to achieve. Together, they're on a mission to get more money into the hands of more women  and this conversation is exactly where to start.

Whether you've ever avoided opening your banking app, wondered how on earth you'll survive retirement, or quietly left the big financial decisions to your partner, this episode is for you.

In this episode, you'll learn:

• Why being bad with money is not a personal failing  and what's actually responsible for it
• What the gender retirement gap, the pink tax, and the silence gap really mean for your financial future
• How the pink tax adds up to over $250,000 across a woman's lifetime
• What the Rich in Context research across Australia and New Zealand revealed about women and financial wellbeing  and the finding that surprised even the researchers
• Why 30% of women have no financial plan beyond hoping something works out
• How your money psychology  not your budget  might be the real thing holding you back
• What happens to women's wealth when they leave the finances to their partner
• The one money move both Rachel and Angela say every woman should make this week
• Why the financial services industry keeps getting women wrong and what they should be doing instead
• What your 25-year-old self needs to hear about compounding, investing, and starting now

Perfect for: Australian women who want to understand why money feels so complicated, anyone ready to stop blaming themselves and start taking action, and every woman who knows she should be doing something about her finances but isn't quite sure where to begin.

The biggest takeaway from this episode? The system wasn't designed for you  but that doesn't mean you can't win at it. Here's how. 🎧

CHAPTERS

00:00:00 — Reset Your Money Mindset: Feelings Before Spreadsheets
00:02:11 — Why This Book, Why Now: The Catalyst for Change
00:03:09 — Complicated Money Patterns: Shame, Binge Spending, and Avoidance
00:04:01 — High Money Explained: 12 Modules on Money Psychology
00:04:32 — Why Women Have Complicated Relationships With Mone
00:06:45 — Realization Story: “No One’s Coming to Save Me”
00:07:56 — Wealth Complications: Why Rich Women Still Struggle With Money
00:09:23 — Inheritances and Mixed Emotions: Half a Million Untouched
00:10:00 — Social Conditioning: Why Talking About Money Feels Greed
00:11:08 — Hidden Finances: Women Kept Out of Big Decisions
00:12:06 — Personal Money Stories: Bankruptcy, Arts Careers, and Hustler Moms
00:15:02 — Systemic Barriers: Retirement Poverty and Financial Advisors’ Gatekeeping
00:16:35 — Death by a Thousand Cuts: Gender Gaps and the Pink Tax
00:18:54 — Rich in Context Research: Mothers as Key Money Influencers
00:20:23 — Trauma and Money: How Childhood Experiences Shape Financial Wellbeing
00:24:32 — One Money Move This Week: Talk to Your Friends About Money
00:25:15 — Talking to Money Exercise: Life-Changing Revelations
00:25:59 — Financial Services Industry Mistakes: Why Pink Marketing Fails
00:26:24 — The Great Wealth Transfer: Neglect Women at Your Peril
00:27:04 — If You’re 25: The Chapter That Could Change Your Future

LINKS FROM THE EPISODE

📍 Book Launch Event
Rachel and Angela are hosting their Australian book launch on 7th May at Readings Bookstore, Carlton, Melbourne - come and say hi!
Get your copy of Money, Money, Money: How to Reset Your Money Mindset and Find Financial Freedom — available at all good bookstores and as an ebook or here: https://www.paperplus.co.nz/shop/books/non-fiction/business-finance-law/finance-economics/money-money-money-1488946
Hi Money Online Course: https://himoney.co/join-hi-money
Rich in Context Report: https://himoney.co/rich-in-context
Book a 1-on-1 Consult with Hi Money: https://himoney.co/book-a-consult
Free Resources: https://himoney.co/resources-free

CONNECT WITH ANGELA MEYER AND RACHEL DAVIES

Website: https://himoney.co/
Angela Meyer's Website: https://www.angela-meyer.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hihi_money
Rachel Davies's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/rach.eyrach 
Angela Meyer's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ange_meyer/
Rachel Davies's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rachel-davies-88rd8/
Angela Meyer's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/angela-meyer-378b321a/
Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@hihimoney4

CONNECT WITH LADIES FINANCE CLUB

Buying a property? Need Financial Advice? Time to sort the Will? Let us help connect you with an awesome woman in finance! https://directory.ladiesfinanceclub.com/
Join our free Facebook group - Ladies Finance Club Money Chat
Website: https://www.ladiesfinanceclub.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladiesfinanceclub/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/ladies-finance-club/
Newsletter: https://www.ladiesfinanceclub.com/newsletter23

TAKEAWAYS

SOUND BITES

"Realizations can be life-changing."
"Treating money without respect."
"Start talking about money early."

TRANSCRIPT

[00:00:00] Hello and welcome back to Get Rich, the podcast that helps you do just that. Get rich and stay rich. I'm your host, Molly Benjamin, and today I have not one but two guests joining me all the way from New Zealand, making them some of our very first international guests on the podcast. So big deal what ifs.

[00:00:19] We are now international, but these two women have spent a decade getting more money into the hands of women running courses, doing their own research, and they've just released a book that went straight to number one called Money, money, money. How to Reset Your Money Mindset and Find Financial Freedom.

[00:00:35] Every woman's guide. And what I love about it is it doesn't start with a budget spreadsheet. It starts with the question nobody else is asking. How do you actually feel about money? And in my experience, and I share it on the podcast, like we can teach you how to invest, we can teach you how to budget, we can teach you how to get outta debt.

[00:00:52] But until you do the mindset work, nothing's really gonna shift. And I see it time and time again with our Ladies Finance Club members. So in this episode, we're getting into why women feel so complicated about money. Why that's absolutely not your fault. Some of the research that will make your jaw drop what the pink tax is actually costing you over lifetime.

[00:01:12] And the one exercise giving women complete light bulb moments about their finances. And yes, we tell you what it is. Don't you worry. And if you're looking to connect with a financial expert, like a mortgage broker, a financial advisor, estate planner, head on over and check out our New Ladies Finance Club directory where we've popped all the amazing women and men we love to work with at Ladies Finance Club in the one place for you to connect with.

[00:01:35] All right. This podcast, I think is one to send to the group chat. Let's get into it. Angela and Rachel, welcome to the Get Rich podcast. We're excited to have you both on from New Zealand.

[00:01:48] Thank you, Molly. Hi.

[00:01:50] We, I think, I think you guys might be our first international guests. So there we go. We're now an international podcast with international guests.

[00:01:57] Wonderful.

[00:01:59] So you have spent a decade trying to get more money into the hands of women, and then you write a book, it goes straight to number one. Congratulations. Why this book and why now?

[00:02:11] We've been working in this, in this field for a number of years and I think it's been wonderful to see that over that time, you know, more and more women are talking about money and what we noticed for our own selves was actually really exploring our relationship with money and understanding about the systemic issues.

[00:02:31] Were were real catalysts for change in, in terms of our own relationships with money. And we had been running high money, which is our business. And we really were excited to see so many women sharing their money stories and their ideas about money and their, their relationships with money. So we were like, let's see if we can get a book deal.

[00:02:51] And we did, but, right. What about you? What, what's your thoughts on that?

[00:02:55] I think like the catalyst for me, for the book and for the course High Money was knowing how powerful exploring my thoughts and feelings about money were. I had always been like. Budgeting, I've got a budget or I've gotta understand the testing.

[00:03:09] And none of that stuff really had traction with me until I really looked at the way I felt about money and I felt complicated. Like I wanted it and I didn't want it. At the same time, I didn't treat it with respect. I'd binge I'd buy a lot of stuff and then refused to look at my bank account for like two weeks.

[00:03:25] 'cause I felt ashamed. Yeah. So I was in some weird patterns. Looking at my money, psychology, just clear that up. And as soon as I did it, I was like, give me those investing podcasts. Give me those budgeting acts, I'm into it. So sort of realizing how useful that was for me

[00:03:43] mm-hmm.

[00:03:44] Was a really big motivation for like, I wonder if other women feel complicated about money too, and if this will also be useful for them.

[00:03:51] Yeah. Love that. And just for context, for people who don't know what your business high money is, could you just give us like a high level version of what you guys do?

[00:04:01] Um, it's an online course that supports women to explore their money psychology. So there are 12 modules. I'm a therapist, so they, the sort of therapist designed and we've tested them with women around Australia and New Zealand and in workshops in person and online.

[00:04:15] So women can sign up and explore that material in their own way and their own time. And there's also. We do them in groups sometimes. So love people, love to talk about money with each other.

[00:04:26] Yeah.

[00:04:27] So we sometimes do it live, you know, with women and in or workshops.

[00:04:32] And this is a big question, but why do you think women do have such complicated relationships with money?

[00:04:38] And if you can give any like real life stories or case studies, I know you have a lot in the book as well, that would be awesome.

[00:04:45] Mm. I think, well, gosh, you know, everyone has a personal story and a personal relationship with money. We look at, you know, a number of different, I suppose, levers that influence people's relationship with money.

[00:04:57] So I work as a, a gender equity specialist, so I kind of have this. Systemic lens across it. So I'll, I'll look at kind of all of the different systemic issues that make it more difficult for women to experience financial wellbeing. So things like the, the gender retirement gap and the pink tax and just the gender gap and, and, and all of those things that make it really difficult.

[00:05:19] And so. For a lot of women, we, we heard a lot of women say, oh, I'm just really bad with money. And we are like, well, actually, are you really bad with money? Or are there so many things that are kind of diverting money away from your pockets? Maybe it's not you that's really bad with money. Maybe it's actually the system hasn't been designed for you.

[00:05:39] Yeah. And of course, how you think and feel is going to be impacted by that. So that's kind of one of the lenses that we bring to the work. High money and, and in the book,

[00:05:50] just on that question as well, I, I guess when I say like, do women have complicated, why do they have complicated? So yes, there's obviously the system and social issues.

[00:06:00] Are there any like, I guess like antidotes or stories that you can share of like, Sarah didn't realize that blah, blah, blah. Or I, I don't know, like some real life stories that we can also share for that question? I

[00:06:14] guess for me, coming from the sort of psychology lens, like the patriarchy in a way gets internalized and you know, women get told a whole lot of stories over their lifetime, like men do too.

[00:06:26] We all get told stories about what's okay for us to do or have or what femin is or blah blah, blah, blah. So one time in one of the high money Zooms, we'd sort of done three or four zooms and women were, had really talked about their money relationship and done a lot of exercises in. One of the participants said, oh my goodness.

[00:06:45] I just realized, I always thought someone was coming to save me. This whole, I'm 53, like no one's come. I just realized that I've been telling myself that and I just realized there's no guy on a horse like, it hasn't happened yet. I'm gonna start, I'm gonna gonna save myself. Yeah. And so massive kind of revelation in which, and the next time we saw her in the group, she had a, uh, her computer opening.

[00:07:09] She was live tracking her bank feed. Into her budgeting app, like was like, I'm allergic. I don't wanna know anything about it. She was really in there because she was saving herself and so. We would have hundreds of examples like that of women.

[00:07:25] Yeah.

[00:07:26] Such a powerful mindset shift. I literally had someone at an event say those exact same words.

[00:07:32] 'cause I, I said in my slides, I said, um, it's very unlikely a prince is gonna come save you if they haven't yet. And also there's only, um, I think there's only like seven eligible princes in the world. But one lady was like, oh my God, I've been waiting for a man to come and save me, and they haven't, and I'm in my forties and it's time that I actually save myself.

[00:07:55] Yeah,

[00:07:55] yeah,

[00:07:56] yeah, yeah. Another one is because sometimes, you know, it's easy to think that. Exploring your money. Psychology is important if you don't have enough money. Yeah. But I've noticed that women with a huge amount of money also feel really complicated feelings about it. For example, I worked in a retreat center called the Essent Institute in California, and where I was in the kitchen chopping onions and there was a woman, a very beautiful English woman, with an amazingly posh accent there.

[00:08:24] Chopping onions, and I found out later that she was a member of the British royal family, a distant member, but just absolutely loaded to the gunnels and incredibly posh. And she was hiding out in a, in the SEL and kitchen chopping onions, pretending that she was broke. She was always like, oh, it's gonna be so hard to pay my rent, or because she wanted to feel like a normal person.

[00:08:47] Or maybe having money felt like an obstacle to having genuine connections or that people would. See her wealth and her power and treat her differently from how they, she wanted to know what it would feel like just to be normal and. Yeah, it really blew my mind that I was like, wow, heaven. Life is really complicated.

[00:09:07] Yes. 'cause a lot of people listening would be like, well, I'd love to have that issue, like bring it on. So yes, when we look at women with inheritances, what we see is a lot of mixed emotions around that because of this. Say the money's come from a loss and they feel like that's not their money to spend.

[00:09:23] Yeah. And they just keep it in a bank account, never to touch it. And I was speaking to this gorgeous woman and I said, how much do you spend on you? And she said, $20 a week. Yeah. She had half a million dollars sitting in a bank account. And it's that, I mean, again, once again, a lot of people listening be like, I love to have that problem.

[00:09:39] But it is. It's this mindset shift that needs to happen and work through to go, actually, I deserve this money. I can spend it on me.

[00:09:48] We have worked with a number of high net worths. And women who, who have shared that they've found it really difficult talking about money with, even within their families, with their friends, with anyone.

[00:10:00] Because again, there is this, this really big social conditioning that it's not okay to talk about money. And if you wanna talk about money or if you have money, you're kind of seen as greedy. And you know, all of those beliefs and ideas that. That is rich. They are, are really powerful and it makes it really difficult for lots of people to have a great relationship with money when you're kind of fighting against not only all this external stuff, but internal things as well.

[00:10:24] Yeah, it's got a really high net worth woman told us that the family they had recently, they'd come into a lot of money and then they would go out for big family lunches and they would always pay. And she said, and no one would ever say thank you. And she said that she felt like. All her family relationships were really frayed because she felt that she was only ever invited, so she would pick up the check.

[00:10:47] Yeah.

[00:10:49] You know, so it's like, wow, these awful sort of, another thing we find is that women, you know, they maybe there's a lot of money and the husband and the wife are earning a lot, but the wife doesn't know anything about where the finances are going. Yeah. Like it's a hidden job and she is just completely oblivious to where the money's invested.

[00:11:08] She's just sort of spending what's in the joint account, so that sort of,

[00:11:12] she's great at budgeting for the household.

[00:11:15] Yes.

[00:11:15] Yeah.

[00:11:15] Yeah.

[00:11:16] I see that as well. Women will do the budget household. They're really good at that. But when it comes to those bigger financial decisions, they're completely kept in the dark or they are not choosing not to be involved, but they're not being involved.

[00:11:29] Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It broke detriment to women's wealth because we, if there's separation, often women. It's expensive to fight for what you're legally meant to have. And women will sometimes not get their fair share or leave, you know, a lot of money on the table, which then contributes to retiring with less, or not being able to support family members or Yeah.

[00:11:52] Yeah. Can have a really negative impact.

[00:11:55] And I guess before this book kind of existed and before you did your own work on your money psychology, what was your relationship like with money?

[00:12:06] Mine was very complicated. I didn't grow up in a household that money was really talked about, or if it was, it was very negative and my father went bankrupt.

[00:12:16] Three, uh, two times. And so we had this real boom and bust cycle and also just deep humiliation and stress. And in fact, the last conversation I ever had with my darling father was actually about money before he died. Mm-hmm. So for me, money and debt was always linked with death. And so I found e even sort of talking about money.

[00:12:40] Really hard actually. So through doing this work, it's been amazing. I've managed to buy property and get an investment portfolio together and feel much more confident about my relationship with money. But yeah, I would not say it was easy or a good time.

[00:12:55] Yeah.

[00:12:56] Growing up.

[00:12:57] Yeah.

[00:12:57] Yeah. And what about you, Rachel?

[00:12:59] My mom's a real, like you can always outfox the system kind of. She'd done real estate and so I sort of grew up with this kind of hustler of a mother and she had separated from my father when I was quite young, so she had to start again and it was quite a difficult custody sort of thing. So there was a lot of that stuff and my early life and I'd gone on to work in the arts and I went to film school to afters in Sydney.

[00:13:24] So I spent a bit of time studying filmmaking in Australia, which was great. And, but the arts doesn't pay very well and generally didn't back in the nineties. So. I sort of lived a life where I thought, I'm just here for the fun and I'm just here for the art, and I'll sort it out later. Like, I'll probably just win a prize or I'll probably just make a really successful movie and then I won't have to worry about it.

[00:13:45] Which a surprisingly large number of people, I think it was 30% in our research, Angela, like they don't have a financial plan. They think just somehow some money's gonna just,

[00:13:54] it will work out.

[00:13:55] Yeah. So I was like that. Yeah. And um, like I said. When I started to explore my money psychology, I realized that I treat money.

[00:14:04] Like I would never treat a person like without respect. I'm just yeah, binging and purging and having too many treats and all sorts of crazy stuff that once I got clear about it, I just stopped completely. So,

[00:14:17] yeah,

[00:14:18] it's embarrassing to say, you know, it's, it's, I wish I, I felt like everybody had it sorted apart from me, but something I've discovered from this work.

[00:14:26] Pretty much no one's got it sorted.

[00:14:28] No. Oh, Rachel, for context, I was crying in a supermarket in London 'cause I'd spent all my money. So don't worry. Like we've all got our like embarrassing stories around money. Yeah. But I think it's the overcoming the journey, changing the mindset around money the way.

[00:14:43] All those influences from our parents as well. And look, the finance system wasn't designed for women, and that's not a feeling, that's a fact. So I guess when did you both have that moment? You stopped blaming yourselves and maybe go, actually, maybe it's not us. Maybe it's also this system that we've been brought up in.

[00:15:02] We did a piece of research actually called Rich in Context, and it was across Australia and New Zealand, and it was kind of looking at those sociocultural determinants of financial wellbeing. And for me it was, I was doing some work in Australia, oh, probably about seven or eight years ago with a big superannuation fund, and discovered that, you know, women were retiring into poverty and that felt like.

[00:15:24] Just such an outrage to me. I was like, what? How did I not know this? How can we not writing in the streets about this? In the research that we did, we also saw that there were so many things that, that women were kind of conditioned to not, to not sort of be aware of. And that sta that rage says about 30% of people have no financial plan whatsoever.

[00:15:47] Yeah. Other than maybe winning lotto. We also saw that women weren't going to talk to financial advisors. I mean, I tried to talk to a financial advisor once when I was about 23, 24 in in London. 'cause I thought, this is what you're meant to do and you're meant to understand the stock market. I was like, I don't know what that is.

[00:16:04] And. I'd saved up some money and I went in to go and speak with the financial advisor and he was like, have you got 10,000 pounds? And I was like, no. And he was like, come back when you've got 10,000 pounds. Yeah. And I was like so deeply humiliated and honestly it just stopped me.

[00:16:20] Yeah,

[00:16:21] for years. And then kind of unpicking the fact that, you know, there's all of these things that lead to women retiring into poverty that are absolutely not our fault, that are absolutely designed and cooked into the system.

[00:16:35] Yeah.

[00:16:35] Was really a big revelation for me and, and I think for a lot of other women it's like, oh, what?

[00:16:41] That's

[00:16:41] not me. Yeah. How about you? Age?

[00:16:43] Well, for me. The chapter in Money, money, money About the system. I find it hard to read 'cause it just makes me wanna cry.

[00:16:50] Yeah.

[00:16:51] Like I find it devastating seeing, like, I think of a woman's financial life as like death by a thousand cuts.

[00:16:57] You know, if it's not stepping out of the workforce to have children or getting paid a little bit less or blah blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. All the things and, but the thing that really I found so. That's found I found really useful is the pink tax, which,

[00:17:12] yeah,

[00:17:12] and you know, probably know what the pink tax is.

[00:17:14] It's like. Women's raises are pink, and they're a little bit more expensive than men's raises and women's haircuts are a little bit more expensive than men's haircuts. And we buy like menstrual products and blah, blah, blah. And in the book, there's an American state that adds that up and it comes out to 200 or $250,000 over a lifetime.

[00:17:34] It's like, man, if I just got the pink tax back, if I just got a quarter of a million bucks right now, my problems are solved. You know, like just that one thing. I think being able to focus on that one quite small thing really galvanized me and made me feel really kind of annoyed in such a way that I was willing to go really hard on getting my financial life sorted.

[00:17:55] Yeah.

[00:17:56] So,

[00:17:57] and I think to your point, Rachel, feeling kind of overwhelmed by that, you know, there is a lot of stacks and facts in that chapter. Mm-hmm. I suppose one of the reasons that we, we put it in was it could be one of those things that actually is a lever that is whoever you are, whatever's kind of like top of mind for you, you can pull that lever and be like, actually, hang on a sec, I'm gonna challenge that one.

[00:18:18] Or like, the pink tax is a really great example because it's not actually tax, it's just the way that marketing. Has been developed and it's also this kind of social conditioning that women have to look a particular way to do professional work, you know? And so we do have a choice there as well about whether we want to participate in that or how in what way we're gonna participate in that.

[00:18:40] Yeah. So you commissioned actual research. The Rich in context report into how women experience financial wellbeing differently. I guess, what did the data show that made you go? People are not gonna believe this.

[00:18:54] Well, one of the things that actually I, I found really interesting was the role that mothers play actually.

[00:19:00] Mm-hmm. And I suppose I, I kind of had this assumption that, you know, within families, fathers would be the one that people would talk to about money. But actually our research showed that across men and women, all genders, people felt much more comfortable talking to their mothers about money. Interesting.

[00:19:20] Yeah. Which, which actually, when you kind of break it down, it sort of makes sense. Makes sense, yeah. And it doesn't necessarily, yeah, it doesn't mean that the, the mother's sitting there giving, you know, investing advice, but it's, it's that kind of, that in relation with the family, you know, that they're probably the ones that are dear Yeah.

[00:19:38] To have the conversation.

[00:19:39] Yeah.

[00:19:40] Or to at least, you know, teach the basics. And so I found that. Really interesting and I was like, wow, if we thought about that in the kind of context of the financial sector and in terms of designing products or services, like what would that look like if the mum was at the heart of this?

[00:19:58] That excites me. It makes me think, wow. Yeah, there's lots of stuff.

[00:20:02] Yeah, that is such a interesting insight as well. But as you said it, when you dig deeper, it does make sense. 'cause you're like, the mom is the one who has those relationships and this, I guess you might feel way more comfortable having that with your mom than your dad.

[00:20:16] Yeah.

[00:20:17] What about you, Rach? What was, was there any kind of like, oh my gosh. Wasn't expecting that.

[00:20:23] I think the most financially, well women are partnered, white Australian women, and I sort of, I often think about them sometimes I'm like, oh, I bet those ladies are on a cruise right now. Or just having a cocktail.

[00:20:35] You know, like, like That's interesting. And I think the thing that, it didn't surprise me, but it was a confirmation of what I see therapeutically in my practice was the role of trauma in financial. You know, I think when people experience awful stuff, it obviously takes a huge toll on every aspect of their life, including financially, and it just kind of snowballs and seeing that in the data I found terribly sad.

[00:21:04] But also I see that, you know, every day in my work. So

[00:21:08] yeah, it

[00:21:08] was quite there on a page. Yeah.

[00:21:10] And can you give us an example of that? And if a trigger warning's needed, we can add that in, but maybe an example of what something traumatic would be that then affects the finances.

[00:21:21] Yeah. It's hard to think of something that's not too heavy.

[00:21:25] Say in the book, we

[00:21:26] give an example in the book.

[00:21:28] Oh, yeah. Um, in the book there's one, like, say a, a young woman has an. An alcoholic father who's, I don't know, verbally abusive and unpredictable. So that baby, that child will never really be able to feel really safe and relaxed because she'll always have to be on guard for an unpredictable person who's gonna yell and scream or get drunk.

[00:21:52] So there's an impact right there. 'cause their nervous system will never be properly relaxed. Mm-hmm. And that will people health damage that will be ongoing. Then often the financial, the home won't be that great because there won't be stability and the mother will be unhappy and sometimes even if there's a lot of money in that family, there'll be often fights about money or all the money stories will be a bit fractious or so there'll be a whole lot of complicated stuff there.

[00:22:21] And then she might leave that family because she's like, I just wanna get out of home as soon as I can. 'cause it's really bad at home.

[00:22:28] Yeah. And

[00:22:28] now she's out in the world maybe starting a new relationship or going to university. And that's a great time for loving parents to intervene in a way that can have a massive effect on a child's wellbeing, like getting them into a good career or financing them into a business, or helping them choose a really good partner.

[00:22:47] She may have fled the family home, so she doesn't get that support. So she might make worse choices or she might get into lots of debt.

[00:22:55] Mm-hmm.

[00:22:56] And then she will be more attracted to a guy that's like her father because that gets wired in. So she's more likely to marry an alcoholic who's unstable.

[00:23:05] Yeah.

[00:23:05] And if you just, I mean, it makes me so sad drawing that pathway. But you can see at every turn he's not well supported her. She's got poor health. She's. Not got high quality support when she needs it, and she's more likely to get herself into situations that where she came from and all of them will impact her wealth and her wellbeing.

[00:23:26] Wow.

[00:23:26] Wow. How's that, Molly?

[00:23:28] Wow. No, no. I think it's really helpful to just like see that journey and hear, hear that, but very, yeah. Obviously. Very sad as well without that intervention.

[00:23:40] You know, we, we talk in the book about how that impact of trauma on the ability to even think mm-hmm. You know, you kind of like behavioral economists call it like tunneling, where you're just unable to kind of make good decisions about your finances because you think, I, I can't think right now.

[00:23:57] Yeah. Which is literally true. So it's kind of like, you know, and, and certainly, you know, work that. I've done around single parents coming out of abusive relationships and stuff. It's just like you are in a, the last thing on your mind is, is you know, how are my investments going?

[00:24:12] Yeah. Or how some super looking.

[00:24:14] Absolutely. Yeah.

[00:24:15] Yeah. You are in survival mode much more. Exactly.

[00:24:19] Yeah.

[00:24:20] So I guess what is one money move? Just one that every woman listening to this episode could do this week that would actually ship something. Maybe if we start with you, Angela.

[00:24:32] I think what came to mind, first of all was talk to your girlfriends about money.

[00:24:38] Yeah. I think that is one of the best things that you can do. Have conversations with your friends. Talk about how much you're earning, talk about where your super's invested. Are you in the right age and stage for, you know, right fund for your agent stage? My message is. Talk to your friends

[00:24:55] and Rachel.

[00:24:56] Yeah, I'd add to that. Don't just talk about investing and practical stuff. Talk about how you feel about money with somebody else. Yeah, like tell them your money story. We do a beautiful exercise in high money where you actually literally talk to money. So you get an object or a person who pretends to be money and you have a direct conversation with money.

[00:25:15] And in that very short sort of exercise, often people have life changing revelations. If you can find a friend, he'll pretend to be money with you and try that out. That would be my number one tip. Yeah,

[00:25:28] I love that. Um, I don't know if you've come across Simone Guinness, she's a money educator. Um, one of the first money coaches ever in the uk, an incredible woman, and she always talks about like if money came to tea.

[00:25:41] So if you had to sit down and have a cup of tea with money, what would they say? What would they look like? How would you feel? And it's such an interesting way to like shift it into almost like this. Person is object. One of my last questions. Financial services industry keeps trying to target women. Pink everything, soft language, patronizing ads.

[00:25:59] What would you say directly to those boardrooms right now if you had a few minutes of their time?

[00:26:04] I think my message would be. Women are about to inherit, or there is a big, great wealth transfer happening and really understanding women is going to be the biggest success of your business. And I would say neglect us at your peril.

[00:26:23] Yeah.

[00:26:24] I'd say meet women where they are like. Women are immune to pink flowers and all the, like we've, we've had, we've been, yeah, princess Industrial Complex, like we've been dealt that kind of stuff for a long time. Like actively seek to truly understand women and what sort of things they face. And if you can do that and really meet women where they are, then there's a huge amount of reward.

[00:26:50] In your business.

[00:26:51] And final question, if you are 25 yourself, got an advanced copy of this book, which chapter would she immediately text a friend about and what do you think she might do differently by next week?

[00:27:04] I think for me, I'd just be talking to all my buddies about money and my money, feelings over drinks and cocktails and all the fun things I was up to.

[00:27:12] I think I'd just start talking about my money, feelings.

[00:27:14] Yeah.

[00:27:15] A lot earlier. Yeah. What about you, Ange?

[00:27:17] Is there a particular chapter.

[00:27:20] I think that, but I also think I would be reading how to Invest chapter. Yeah. If I'm really honest, I think I'd be like, girlfriend, you're 25. Start

[00:27:31] compounding.

[00:27:32] Let it

[00:27:33] be your best friend.

[00:27:34] Yeah. Let's get into compounding. I think I'd probably go into that really practical thing and then work my way back. Yeah. If I was, if I'm honest about it.

[00:27:43] Mm-hmm. Love it. Well, thank you so much ladies for taking the time out and being our, some of our first International New Zealand guests on the potty.

[00:27:52] Where can people get copies of this book if they wanna check it out for themselves?

[00:27:56] Um, well, it's in all good bookstores. We are going to be launching the book in Melbourne, so if anyone is in Melbourne on the 7th of May, we're gonna be at Readings bookstore in Colton and we'd love people to come along and say.

[00:28:10] Say hi, come and have a chat with money. Yeah, and it's also available on as an ebook as well.

[00:28:16] Fantastic. Thank you so much.

[00:28:18] Thank you, Molly. It's such a pleasure to come on the potty. Thank you.

KEYWORDS
women and money, financial empowerment, systemic issues, money psychology, wealth transfer, financial education, gender equity, money mindset, financial well-being, high net worth women