No Will or Estate Plan? Here’s What Really Happens to Your Money and Assets

Think estate planning is just for the rich or the elderly? Think again. In this episode of Get Rich, Molly sits down with estate planning lawyer Simone Hargreaves to unpack exactly what goes into a rock-solid estate plan and why every adult needs one.

We cover:

• What’s actually in an estate plan (hint: it’s more than just a will)
  
• How powers of attorney and guardianship work
  
• What happens if you die without a will (spoiler: the government decides)
  
• The big mistakes people make with DIY wills
  
• How to protect your super, your digital assets, and your kids’ future
  
• Why having ‘the conversation’ with your family matters
  
  

Whether you’re 28 or 68, married, single, or somewhere in between, this is a must-listen if you want to protect your money, your wishes, and the people you love.

This episode is brought to you by InvestorKit, Australia’s #1 Buyers Agency for 2023 and 2024. They specialise in helping investors find high-growth properties utilising industry leading AI and data driven research process across Australia. 70%+ of the properties they purchase are off-market and they have consistently outperformed national average capital growth rates by over 49%. Whether you’re looking to build your property portfolio or secure your first investment. Check them out here.

CHAPTERS

 00:00 – Welcome to Get Rich
01:16 – Why estate planning matters
03:32 – What estate planning actually includes
05:05 – Breaking down superannuation
05:53 – Guardianship & children
06:25 – How often should you update your estate plan?
08:01 – What happens if you don’t have a will
09:55 – Eligible claimants & disputes
12:05 – Common mistakes
13:35 – Costs & cheap alternatives
15:33 – What happens when someone passes away
18:42 – The executor role
22:27 – Family conversations
25:23 – Letter of Wishes
26:59 – Superannuation for single women
28:32 – How to get help

LINKS AND RESOURCES

 Wills and powers of attorney - Moneysmart.gov.au – plain-English overview and checklists.
NSW Trustee and Guardian | NSW Government – information on making and updating wills and enduring documents in your state.
Public Trustee Act 1995 | South Australian Legislation – state pages for fees, forms and eligibility.

CONNECT WITH GLEN JAMES SIMONE HARGREAVES

Website: https://www.theestateplanningcentre.com.au/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-estate-planning-centre/about/?viewAsMember=true
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/theestateplanningcentre

CONNECT WITH LADIES FINANCE CLUB

Join our free Facebook group - Ladies Finance Club Money Chat
Website: https://www.ladiesfinanceclub.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ladiesfinanceclub/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/ladies-finance-club/

TAKEAWAYS

• Estate planning is essential for everyone over 18.
• A comprehensive estate plan includes more than just a will.
• Updating your estate plan is crucial after major life events.
• Not having a will can lead to complex legal issues for loved ones.
• DIY estate planning can lead to significant mistakes.
• Affordable options for estate planning exist, but caution is needed.
• The executor has significant responsibilities and may be compensated.
• Open communication about estate plans can prevent disputes.
• Letters of wishes can provide clarity and guidance for loved ones.
• Superannuation should be considered in estate planning.

SOUND BITES

"It's not just a will."
"DIYing is the biggest issue we see."
"It's a huge amount of work."

TRANSCRIPT

[00:00:00] Molly: Welcome to Get Rich, the podcast that helps you do just that. Get rich and stay rich. Hey, I'm Molly Benjamin. I'm the founder of Ladies Finance Club, one of Australia's largest financial education platforms for women. But before I started helping thousands of women take control with their money, I was a hot financial mess when it came to my own finances and not the fun kind of hot, more like crying in a supermarket, wondering where all my money went kind of hot.

[00:00:29] But here's the thing, if I can go from financial mess to owning a share portfolio, investing in property, and building wealth. Then you can too. My mission is simple to make women rich because when we have financial freedom, we have choices, confidence, and control over our future. Every week on Get Rich, I sit down with some of the best experts in the industry to break down how we can all start investing, growing our money, and creating long-term financial security without the jargon, boring bits or overwhelm.

[00:01:02] Because when women get rich, we don't just change our lives. We change the world. So if you're ready to start making some smart Money moves, hit that subscribe button and let's get Rich together.

[00:01:16] Welcome back to another episode of the Get Rich podcast. I'm your host, Molly Benjamin, founder of Ladies Finance Club. We drop episodes every Tuesday morning, and today's episode is, I'm not gonna lie, we're gonna be adulting hard. We are talking about what happens if you are no longer here and before you skip and go Uhuh, I don't wanna think about it.

[00:01:39] But the thing is, if you don't, you might accidentally leave your stuff to weird chasm Barry, instead of the people or pets you actually love. And I would say probably one in two people I speak to do not have a will. They haven't done their estate plan. They don't have any powers of attorney in place. So today I am joined by estate planner.

[00:01:58] Simone Hargreaves from the Estate Planning Center, and we're gonna unpack what do you really need in place from wills to powers, attorney guardianship, super nominations. And yes, what happens if you don't actually have a will? And the way I like to think of it, and I say it in the podcast as well, is if you don't decide the government will, and it might not be what you want.

[00:02:19] So think of this episode as your crash course in top tier adulting. Trust me, it's actually way less scary and a lot less boring than you think. And again, we don't talk about this stuff with our girlfriends. So next time you are chatting with 'em, just mention like, have you got a will? And see what the answer is.

[00:02:35] And if they don't, maybe encourage them to go get one as well. And money does make people funny, and I'm sure you know, I know. Many examples where the estate plan hasn't been what people thought, or there was no estate plan, and now certain family members don't talk to each other, so we don't want that. No, no, no.

[00:02:54] We wanna be on top of it and organized. So get ready for this financially adulting episode of Get Rich. And if you're enjoying these episodes, please hit that subscribe button. All right, let's get into it. Simone, welcome to the podcast. Hi Molly. So estate planning, I'm really excited to cover this topic because as I mentioned in the intro, we haven't done this for quite some time, but like when we say estate planning, what does that actually include and what does that mean?

[00:03:24] Because I know when I first started the industry, I was like, real estate, estate, is it something to do with just like property, but like

[00:03:32] Simone: what does it actually mean and include. It's a question we get asked about a lot, to be honest. You know what? What is estate planning? What are you exactly planning here?

[00:03:41] So an estate plan, it's for everybody. Anyone who's over 18, and it's a plan where we are planning what would happen to your estate, that is the things you own, what would happen if you have children under 18 in terms of their care. What would happen if you lost capacity in terms of your legal financial decision making and your medical lifestyle, decision making, all of that.

[00:04:02] Is estate planning. So we're putting in place a plan for your estate.

[00:04:06] Molly: So when looking at an estate plan and like maybe we use me as an example, so let's say I have, I sit down with you, I don't have anything in place what's actually included in estate plan. So I'm assuming we've got a will, which tells. My loved ones where I want my assets to go.

[00:04:24] Like the my, my property or my, my bits and pieces.

[00:04:28] Simone: Yeah, absolutely. So we, we want a will that deals with your estate and your decision making in the event that you pass, but also in the event you're alive and you can't make legal, financial, or medical lifestyle decisions for yourself. So that would be a power of attorney for the legal financial decision making and an enduring guardian or the equivalent depending on which state or territory you are in for medical lifestyle decision.

[00:04:51] So you want your will, your power of attorney, your medical guardian, so the enduring guardian in New South Wales, your superannuation. So we wanna make sure we take agency there and direct that to where we want it to go. And that really depends on how we've set up your will

[00:05:05] Molly: with your superannuation. Is it true that that doesn't necessarily make up your estate?

[00:05:11] Simone: No. If

[00:05:11] Molly: you need to, would you need to write it into your, your will or like your wishes? How does that work?

[00:05:16] Simone: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So your superannuation is passed on in accordance with your binding death benefit nomination. So you wanna make sure that you take agency there and that the direction where you push it makes sense in light of your will, how you've set up the gifting under your, your will.

[00:05:33] Molly: Okay, great. So. With that. So we've got my will, my power of attorney, and then depending on my, the state I'm in, and enduring power, like enduring guardian. What is that? An enduring guardian? Yep. Enduring guardian. Yeah. And again, let's say again, in my non-existent. Like, I don't have kids right yet, but I am pregnant.

[00:05:53] But let's say I have children. Where does, like, who looks after those? What does that one come under?

[00:05:58] Simone: Yeah. So that would come under your will. Yeah. Um, so you'd set down a list of guardians who you would like to take care of your children under 18 in the event, heaven forbid, you and your partner can't.

[00:06:09] Yeah.

[00:06:10] Molly: Okay. And I, I always say like, no one wants to think about death. It's like the most adulting thing you can do. Absolutely. But this is something, is this something like Simone? If you sit down with a good estate planner, you do this once, and then how often would you need to like update it?

[00:06:25] Simone: It's the good old legal answer.

[00:06:26] It depends. So it depends what happens in life. We provide all our clients with a review checklist at the end of the year, you know, their estate planning process to say, look, if anything on this list, and it is quite, the list happens, reach out to us and we, we sit down and have a, a good review of the estate plan and work out, you know.

[00:06:43] Has what has happened? Does it necessitate an update to the plan? And more often than not, it's just a tweak here and there. But as an example, in the last six months, we've had a number of clients reach out and just say, look, the guardians for our minor children, it would no longer really work very well, um, if they were to look after our children in a couple of cases.

[00:07:00] Sadly. The relationships have dissolved or whatever, and we can make that update really quickly. Sometimes people, you know, buy and sell property and the way that they purchase the property is different to how they used to purchase the property. They might now own it in one person's name instead of both names as as a couple or, or whatever.

[00:07:17] And we can work out quite quickly if we need to, you know, update the estate plan. But absolutely, there are many things that can happen in life that would necessitate. A will being updated. And an estate plan isn't a set and forget exercise. No. We wanna make sure it stays current and stays best practice in the event.

[00:07:34] Heaven forbid we should pass or, or become incapacitated.

[00:07:38] Molly: So I guess it's, it's a live living document.

[00:07:40] Simone: Yeah.

[00:07:41] Molly: And imagine like if you get divorced, if you get separated, if you get married, if you have kids, they would all be kind of like little life events where you'd be like, I need to update the will.

[00:07:51] Simone: Yeah.

[00:07:52] Yeah, absolutely. Marriage, separation, divorce, children moving home. If you're purchasing property into state, that's probably a trigger for an estate planning update.

[00:08:01] Molly: Yeah. And what happens, like, I mean, I, I'm always so surprised at the huge amount of Aussies who don't have a will in place. And I'm always like, well, if you don't decide, the government will, and you might not agree with what they decide, but can you kind of step us through maybe what would happen with someone who doesn't have a will?

[00:08:20] Simone: Yeah, absolutely. We're always better off having a will. The process that we are leaving behind is really complex. It's drawn out, it's messy, and it's uncertain. So to begin with, those left behind have to demonstrate that they've gone to all efforts to try and locate a will to make it clear to the court there was no will.

[00:08:39] And so that looks like going through. All the paperwork around the home, engaging with any lawyers that the individual has engaged with during their lifetime. You know, if you pass Sydney, new South Wales, for example, it looks like make demonstrating to the court, you've made adequate searches of the law firms in region.

[00:08:57] Can you imagine in Sydney grieving

[00:09:00] Molly: you have to go through like 150 plus law firms. Yeah. Says wow.

[00:09:05] Simone: Yeah. So it's a lot of evidence that you're putting on to show that you've gone to all efforts. The family is left trying to work out who will administer the estate that is taking on that. Job that's not a walk in the park to administer the estate on behalf of the deceased individual.

[00:09:20] So it's, it's a, a huge undertaking. It, it takes time. Mm-hmm. And you're right that the estate ends up being distributed in accordance with the legislative framework in your state or territory, rather than in accordance with how you would want it to be distributed.

[00:09:34] Molly: And you always hear those kind of horror stories of like people just popping out, out of the blue being like, I'm a cousin, they were my best friend, or they told me they wanted.

[00:09:42] Everything to go to me. Is that like something that happens often or is that another, like if you don't have a will that literally someone could claim your assets, who you wouldn't want to claim your assets?

[00:09:55] Simone: Yeah. Look, their legislation makes. Many classes of persons eligible claimants to bring claims against estates, irrespective of whether there's a will or not.

[00:10:05] The issue with not taking any agency is your estate is really vulnerable. There's no documentation at at all as to your intent. And yeah, so you are placing your estate in a really vulnerable position. If you haven't, you know, stipulated how you would want your estate to be distributed, but certainly irrespective of whether you have a will or not, the succession law applies in every state and territory and that.

[00:10:25] Legislation in every state and territory makes certain persons eligible to bring a claim against an estate. So I think in my experience, at least, I haven't seen in test state estate, that is the states where there was no will more inclined to dispute. And I'm not sure there is research in that regard, but certainly you, you haven't exercised agency.

[00:10:47] It's very unlikely that the distribution of the estate would look anything like. How you would intend it to. And certainly when we are meeting with clients and we're talking about the intestacy position, it is so uncommon for someone to say, oh, well if I didn't have a will in place, that looks exactly how, yeah, I would want it to look, you know?

[00:11:05] Molly: And so when you say, is there, like if you don't have a will, is there an automatic order? It's like if go to your husband and go to your kids, it would go to your next. Relative. Like is there like kind of like a loose order?

[00:11:18] Simone: Yeah, there is absolutely an order, a statutory order. And it differs all around Australia.

[00:11:22] Molly: Yeah.

[00:11:23] Simone: Yeah.

[00:11:23] Molly: So I imagine if you are, 'cause again, when I was in the UK I remember doing a session with a state lawyer and. It was like an ex-partner who they'd separated but not divorced. Mm-hmm. And they were able to claim as the partner, even though they know that that's definitely not where she would've wanted her assets to go, but he imagine mm-hmm.

[00:11:43] To get access to them. So I imagine it just like covers your basises and you know, like where I want my stuff to go is gonna go.

[00:11:51] Simone: Yeah, absolutely.

[00:11:52] Molly: What do you think are the biggest mistakes you see when people kind of jump into either estate planning? Is it, I imagine the first one is like not having an estate plan, but yeah, after that, what kind of like common mistakes you see people make?

[00:12:05] Simone: Yeah, I think it's, it's fair to say it's an area of the law where people can assume. It's fairly straightforward. And look, sometimes it is, but more often than not, it's not, you know, life is complex. You know, we are seeing more and more blended family scenarios more often than not. You know, couples come to us and they have expos or ex-partners, and they can be eligible to bring claims against our estate.

[00:12:26] You know, it, DIYing, I would say is the, is the biggest issue that we see in this space is that, uh, that assumption that how hard can this be, right? I can buy a, a will. Kit from the post office and these days I can type in some information into a web browser and chat. GPT will create something for me. So we're starting to see AI create generated wills and we're starting to see online will provider wills, where the, the user entering the details has really assumed an understanding, a legal understanding of the impact from a succession perspective as to.

[00:12:59] How they own what they own, uh, will impact the estate. You know, so an assumption that I own my property, for example, with my partner, but if something were to happen to me, my share of the property would pass in accordance with my will. Well, that's not actually necessarily the case. That depends on how you own that property.

[00:13:15] Do you own it as joint tenants where you both own all of it? Mm-hmm. Or do you own it? In a percentage shares, tenants in common. And yeah, we, we are finding the DIY approach tools can be really problematic. Yeah. And perhaps an, an underestimation of the legal knowledge that's required to get the outcome that you, you're really seeking when you're sitting down to plan your estate.

[00:13:35] Molly: And for someone who's maybe, 'cause we always talk about like, obviously when it comes to your finances, like you wanna get financial advice, but Yeah. You know, we're looking at the average. A financial advisor being 5K in this country. Mm-hmm. Are there like different levels? Like obviously if everyone could afford it, they would go to an estate planner like yourself, sit down, get the proper advice for people who are just not in that financial position.

[00:14:00] Like is there an alternative? 'cause like I guess with financial advisors, we go like there's a money coach, but is there like a government or is there anyone who kind of looks after the people who might not be able to afford that full amount?

[00:14:13] Simone: I mean, yeah, absolutely. You can reach out to public trustee and guardian, the equivalent body in your state or territory.

[00:14:20] I would say though, you need to be careful when you get what you pay for generally in this space, you know? And in the event that you are reaching out to a. A lower fee provider, a state planner, uh, whether that's a government entity, you need to be careful, you know, how is this benefiting whoever is creating the document?

[00:14:40] Because I think it's fair to say if you're not making your money at the front end from creating the documentation, you know, if your, your base aren't covered there, you know, you've got legal time involved and where is it being covered from? And sometimes we can see documents where. Entities are written in, in terms of being the administrator and that's where the, the fees are recovered because they will step into assist administering the estate and they derive a percentage ba, you know, of the estate and they charge hourly rates for administering the estate.

[00:15:10] So you just need to be really careful when exploring, I guess, cheap alternatives in the space. Why is that being offered and how are costs being covered? Yeah. So let's

[00:15:21] Molly: jump into that. So let's say my Uncle Char, I don't have an Uncle Charlie, but let's say my Uncle Charlie passes away. What is the actual, like, what's the process and let's say he had a will.

[00:15:33] Mm-hmm. What's the process that happens once they've actually

[00:15:36] Simone: passed away?

[00:15:37] Molly: Hmm.

[00:15:37] Simone: If that were the case and you were administering Uncle Charlie's estate, so you were a named executor in his will, you'd be reaching out to a law firm who can assist in estates administration matters, and you'd be locating the original will.

[00:15:51] Actually, in this example, let's

[00:15:53] Molly: make it your, the law firm. So I would, would I call you up and be like, uncle Charlie's passed away. Yep. Do you have his will? How does that work?

[00:16:02] Simone: Yeah, so hopefully Uncle Charlie's made it really clear where the original will is stored, or you've got a bit of a task ahead of you.

[00:16:08] I mean, more often than not

[00:16:09] Molly: if I think he's such an important action for people to act on listening to this podcast, like have that conversation if you are like, you need to know where these documents. Exist.

[00:16:19] Simone: Mm, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. If you've gone to the effort of having the documents drafted, you need, you really need to explain, uh, to those who are appointed to those roles, where the documents are and what they'd need to do if they needed to, you know, be activated, who they'd need to reach out to.

[00:16:32] Absolutely. Usually on the front of a document, if you've gone to the effort of having a will professionally drafted that. The law firm's details are gonna be somewhere on that document. They're at least going to have had a member of staff witnessing the documents more often than not. So it's usually not too difficult if they've had them professionally.

[00:16:47] Molly: Yeah.

[00:16:48] Simone: Prepared. So you wanna locate that original document. You wanna reach out, you know, we'd be taking the call if we we're the law firm on the other end, we'd be sitting down we you and having a look at that. Will we'd be explaining what it says in terms of its legal impact. Yeah. We'd be saying to you.

[00:17:02] Okay. So as executor. Your job is to fully administer this Will so put this will into effect. Yeah. So we're going to make sure that everything Uncle Charlie owned, all his interests are going to be transferred in accordance with this will. So we'd be then working out what his assets were at the date of death.

[00:17:18] Yeah. Any liabilities. We'd be wanting valuations done perhaps on real estate and, and so on. We'd be writing to the asset holders, you know, we'd be writing to his bank and asking for their requirements for release of the assets and so on. And once we have all that information, then we'd be working out, okay, this is what Uncle Charlie owned at the date of death.

[00:17:36] This is what his will wants to achieve. This is how we owned what he owned. Yeah. You know, did he own it jointly with somebody else, in which case it can transfer through laws of survivorship or not. And the assets passed through the will. So we are working all of that out. Then we're putting together what's called an affidavit of executor, where you are saying to the court, I'm the executor named in the will.

[00:17:56] I swear I'm gonna carry out Uncle Charlie's wishes. Here's the will. His Uncle Charlie's death certificate. Uh, here's a list of his assets and liabilities at the date of death. Here's a list of the beneficiaries that the will sets out. Mm-hmm. And their shares that they're entitled to under the will of his estate.

[00:18:11] Yeah. We're submitting all of that to the court. In, I'd say, you know, eight, nine out of 10 times we, we having the court look at all of that and say, yep, we're happy with that. And they're releasing what's called a grant of probate. So that's a court sealed document that comes back to us, that's an official grant from the Supreme Court.

[00:18:29] And then we are using that to scoop up the assets. So we're sending that to the asset holders. Okay. Together with their paperwork and they're then releasing the assets to you as executor. Yeah. And then your job is to get them to the beneficiaries. Yeah.

[00:18:42] Molly: So in their, in the movies when they're all sitting around a table and they're like, they left Susie nothing and they left Henry everything.

[00:18:50] Does that kind of situation happen? Or is it more the executive just go, like, would be calling them up?

[00:18:54] Simone: Yeah, that's it. The latter. Yeah. I mean, we have had situations where whole families come in and they wanna understand the legal impact of the will and and where possible. You know, that's not a bad idea.

[00:19:05] Molly: Yeah. And

[00:19:05] Simone: particularly if you have wills that incorporate testamentary trusts, you have minor beneficiaries, things aren't as straightforward as they might be in the family or whatever. It's not a bad idea sometimes to have everyone around the table, but yeah, absolutely. More often than not, we are dealing with the, the named executor in the will.

[00:19:21] Molly: Yeah. And when it's like, okay, so they've got property here, they've got this here, they, we've gotta contact the bank. Is that the estate lawyer doing that or is that the person who's the executor?

[00:19:31] Simone: Yeah, either or, to be honest. So it depends on the executor's preferred way forward. So most, most firms will offer the option of the, the individual making those in inquiries.

[00:19:43] You know, anything, of course a law firm's going to be doing has a legal cost involved. Let's say most of our clients are saying, saying to us, could you please. You know, there's a lot of work involved in being an executor. You're responsible for administering the physical estate too. You know, it's the person's personal effects, their home reading it for sale.

[00:19:58] There's a lot of physicality to executorship.

[00:20:01] Molly: Yeah, I mean, I mean, seems feels like a really blunt question, but do you get paid if you are the executor?

[00:20:07] Simone: You can. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So the will might have made provision for such payment, it will give what's called executor's commission. Well, in lieu of executor's, commission a gift.

[00:20:17] Okay. In the event there is no gift in the will, the executor can make an application to the court for payment. And essentially that's the executor sort of tabulating to the court, you know, this is the effort that I went to,

[00:20:30] Molly: and the court wants to get all those documents.

[00:20:33] Simone: Yeah, it's a huge amount of work.

[00:20:34] Molly: Huge amount of work. Yeah.

[00:20:35] Simone: Huge amount of work. Yeah. So the court acknowledges that it can sometimes look very much like a part-time job and then some, and the court will, if the applicant, you know, goes to that effort to ask for executor's commission from the estate, the estate, the court will generally pay it to the tune of one to 3% of the net value of the estate.

[00:20:52] So we find a lot of clients will actually wanna get ahead of that and say in the will, you know what, if you act as my executor, we'd like to make a gift. To you in lieu of your ability to claim? Yeah.

[00:21:03] Molly: Yes. Okay. And at people listening when they're thinking about who can be their executor. Yeah. Is it like, what's generally the thing?

[00:21:11] Is it like a family friend? Is it a friend who's a lawyer? Is it a family? Yeah. Is it like a trusted family member? Like what do you find the most common executor?

[00:21:21] Simone: More often than not, when we have a couple, the couple will usually appoint each other in the first instance, and then they'll be looking at having backup appointments, which is always a good idea, and that can look like children.

[00:21:32] It might look like the eldest to the youngest. There's no sort of rules or, you know, requirements as to what it needs to look like. Some people will appoint professionals, some people might be concerned about conflict on the estate and and want to sort of have a third party Managing that with the understanding that that will come with a cost, a professional cost as well.

[00:21:49] It depends. Is the answer, is the answer to that one? Sometimes people will appoint a trusted friend. You are usually wanting to find, you are wanting to appoint someone who has, who appreciates that this won't be a walk in the park. Yeah. Who has that ability to just put one foot in front of the other?

[00:22:06] It's a big administrative task. You know, they're. They're responsible, they're, they're someone who's kind of got life admin under control and they'd be willing to do what it takes to wrap up the estate and, and get the estate administered.

[00:22:18] Molly: And just two common questions that we get quite a lot. So the first one was, I mean, I've got one on super and then this next one.

[00:22:27] But how important is it in your, like in doing what you do every day, how important is it for families to actually. As the parents are getting older, have the chat with their family to be like, Hey guys, this is what we're doing and being really open about this is how we're gonna do the assets, it's gonna be equal.

[00:22:45] Like, is that work doing? Is it common? Does it need to happen more?

[00:22:49] Simone: It's not common in my view. It would benefit a lot of estates and a lot of families if we did that right. And, you know, we go to all this effort to put these documents in place. We meet with beautiful families, um, beautiful couples, individuals who put, go to all of this effort and the kids are left behind.

[00:23:05] None the wiser. And if you've had quality estate planning done, you know, sometimes you might have gone to the effort of, of having wills craft at the half. Beautiful trust in them that can ignite with amazing taxation, savings to be had by the beneficiaries and incredible asset protection involved. And you haven't said a peep to your kids about how you've structured things and then you pass.

[00:23:25] Yeah, and they're left with quite the suite of legal documents and we. Do find that the more inclined the individual or individuals were to communicating the why and the what. Yeah. The less inclined the estate is to dispute and um, it's no surprise that's what the research shows as well. Yeah. The more front footed we are with the communication piece and the more involved we, we are with the children and explaining the why, you know, we've set up, for example, these testamentary trusts.

[00:23:52] Not 'cause we like fancy things and these, the bees knees of wills, but because we want good things for you and these have. Really unique, remarkable features to them, and this is how they work. We can do that and we can take that front footed approach. So we are starting to see, uh, families interested in round the table, but I mean, it's not for every family, but I think to be honest, um, quite.

[00:24:13] Often we could do with taking that little extra step and just involving the kids, even if it's at the end of the plan. We don't, I appreciate clients don't necessarily wanna involve the children in terms of what do you think if we do this? So what do you think if we do that? It's not for everybody. And, and often families will say, you know, this is my estate plan.

[00:24:29] I want to take agency still, but I,

[00:24:32] Molly: explaining, explaining

[00:24:33] Simone: it,

[00:24:33] Molly: it's not such a.

[00:24:34] Simone: Yeah.

[00:24:35] Molly: What the hell is going on? Yeah. And they're also dealing with grief as well.

[00:24:40] Simone: Absolutely. And when you're dealing with money, grief and there's not, you haven't really taken the opportunity to explain the why. We do find, I mean, it's human right?

[00:24:51] We can be inclined when we are not. At our best, you know, we're dealing with grief. Yeah. Those conversations can no longer be had. We can be inclined sometimes to reiterate things in a way that perhaps isn't that helpful and we can see a states inclined to dispute, and that's really sad. We're not.

[00:25:08] Sometimes you do see situations where you think a lot could have been done here that would just sort of calmed things down, and that's where a letter of wishes can be really helpful. That sits alongside the will that is, you know, explaining the heart behind what you're leaving legally. Um. So a letter of

[00:25:23] Molly: wishes.

[00:25:23] I mean, that can go into the state plan, mix with the power of attorneys and the enduring guard and the will. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Just, I guess in really simple terms, is it literally just a letter you write being like, if you're reading this, I've died and this is my wishes.

[00:25:37] Simone: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And it can, it can leave instruction to just help people just get, get on with what needs to be done, you know, where are your digital assets?

[00:25:45] How are people meant to access them? What do you want done with your digital footprint, you know, your social media accounts and so on. You, you are giving permission to close things down. To memorialize a council, whatever it is you want to have happen. So it's also that element of permission, I think that can be provided in that non-legal binding sort of document.

[00:26:02] That can be really helpful. Yeah, you can even leave instruction around funeral or instructions, and we can see sometimes that can be a place where dispute just starts. Yeah. You know, everyone has an idea as to perhaps what you wanted but you never really expressed. It can be really helpful for those you love to just say, oh.

[00:26:20] Mom, dad, whomever. This is what they wanted.

[00:26:23] Molly: Yeah. It's actually really interesting. When my, um, grandma passed away last year, everyone was struck down with COVID and I was the only person who wasn't sick. So I ended up with a lot of the funeral arrangements, but they pulled out this book led at the funeral home, which had all the wishes that my grandma wanted.

[00:26:40] She wanted be created. What kind of things she wanted. She wanted like an eco-friendly coffee, like all the things. And I was like. Imagine making these decisions, not knowing this, like you made it so much easier. Okay. And my last question, that's wonderful. Yeah. And my last question because I'm like, oh, estate planning is so much good stuff in this.

[00:26:59] Yeah. Super. So we've got a lot of incredible single women. They've never been married or they're separated and very happily separated. They're choosing not to be in relationships. Yeah. And they always have this question, they're like. When it comes to our super, I know when you are doing your binding nominations or your nominations, you can't nominate a parent.

[00:27:22] So they're like, I don't have kids. I'm not gonna leave it to my dog. Like, who can I leave it to? Can I leave? They wanna leave it to their parents or they wanna leave it to, um, a loved one. So in those situations, what do they do?

[00:27:35] Simone: Yeah, usually we're finding the legal personal representative, so it would be directed across to the estate to be administered in accordance with the will.

[00:27:42] But it really, it depends. It's, it's that classic answer. Again, it depends on the person's individual circumstances. If there is a tax dependent in their, in their world, what their will says. Are there risks against the estate? You know, do we have a formal property law settlement, say with an ex-spouse that we, where we may not want in in certain circumstances, we may not want to be directing the super across to the estate necessarily, but it depends on everybody's individual circumstances.

[00:28:08] Yeah.

[00:28:08] Molly: But it is the option for them to write into the will where they want that.

[00:28:11] Simone: Yeah, absolutely there is. Yeah. I think that's

[00:28:14] Molly: maybe something that people aren't quite aware of.

[00:28:16] Simone: Yeah.

[00:28:16] Molly: Um, so that's a good one to note.

[00:28:18] Simone: Yes.

[00:28:19] Molly: Thank you so much for coming on and explaining like, well, what is kind of a complicated world, but thank you for explaining it into like basic terms.

[00:28:28] And Simone, if someone wants to reach out to you guys, where do they go? Yeah,

[00:28:32] Simone: sure. So, uh, the internet, of course. So we're at the estate planning center.com au. We're based in Sydney, but we assist clients all around Australia with their estate planning. No matter who you reach out to, you wanna make sure you're reaching out to someone who works in succession law and does a lot of work in that space.

[00:28:49] Because I think it's fair to say these days you wanna be engaging a firm or an individual who has a lot of experience. In estate planning. It's really, its only area of practice now. So if you want to reach out to us, we, we can book in a complimentary chat and work out quickly what you need, what you know, why you need it, and then we can give you a fixed fee quote for services.

[00:29:09] So we do that work upfront to be able to say with confidence, this is what you need, this is how much it's going to cost, and then we promise to travel that journey with you and you'll come out the other side with your estate plan in place. Fantastic. And we'll pop

[00:29:22] Molly: those links in the show notes as well.

[00:29:24] Thank you so much, Simone. Thanks for jumping on and chatting with us. Absolute

[00:29:29] Simone: pleasure, Molly. Thanks for having me.

KEYWORDS

estate planning, wills, power of attorney, estate executor, superannuation, estate administration, estate mistakes, estate planning solutions, family communication, letters of wishes